{"id":2155188,"date":"2026-02-12T14:50:00","date_gmt":"2026-02-12T19:50:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/?p=2155188&#038;post_type=podcast&#038;preview_id=2155188"},"modified":"2026-02-13T19:14:26","modified_gmt":"2026-02-14T00:14:26","slug":"what-the-health-433-fda-flu-vaccine-rejected-moderna-abortion-pill-february-12-2026","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/news\/podcast\/what-the-health-433-fda-flu-vaccine-rejected-moderna-abortion-pill-february-12-2026\/","title":{"rendered":"What the Health? From KFF Health News: New Flu Vax? FDA Says No Thanks"},"content":{"rendered":"\n<div class=\"wp-block-group is-layout-flow wp-block-group-is-layout-flow\"><div class=\"block--iframe\">\n\t<iframe\n\t\tallow=\"fullscreen\"\n\t\tframeborder=\"0\"\n\t\theight=\"188\"\n\t\tsrc=\"https:\/\/play.prx.org\/e?ge=prx_14448_78410c46-5acd-4fb2-acad-da7f88c83f8b&#038;uf=https%3A%2F%2Fwhatthehealth.feeds.wamu.org\"\n\t\twidth=\"100%\"\n\t><\/iframe>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-people block--people\">\n\t\t<h3 class=\"people-title\">\n\t\tThe Host\t<\/h3>\n\t\t<div class=\"people-card-container single\">\n\t\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-people-card block--people-card\">\n\t\t\t\t<div class=\"author-image-container\">\n\t\t\t<img srcset=\"https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2024\/07\/Rovner-Julie2021_1100sq.jpg 1100w, https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2024\/07\/Rovner-Julie2021_1100sq.jpg?resize=150,150 150w, https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2024\/07\/Rovner-Julie2021_1100sq.jpg?resize=500,500 500w, https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2024\/07\/Rovner-Julie2021_1100sq.jpg?resize=768,768 768w, https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2024\/07\/Rovner-Julie2021_1100sq.jpg?resize=480,480 480w, https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2024\/07\/Rovner-Julie2021_1100sq.jpg?resize=100,100 100w, https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2024\/07\/Rovner-Julie2021_1100sq.jpg?resize=120,120 120w, https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2024\/07\/Rovner-Julie2021_1100sq.jpg?resize=170,170 170w, https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2024\/07\/Rovner-Julie2021_1100sq.jpg?resize=300,300 300w, https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2024\/07\/Rovner-Julie2021_1100sq.jpg?resize=315,315 315w, https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2024\/07\/Rovner-Julie2021_1100sq.jpg?resize=630,630 630w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 767px) 100vw, 500px\" \/>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<div class=\"author-meta-container\">\n\t<div class=\"author-name\">Julie Rovner<\/div>\n\t<div class=\"author-affiliation\">KFF Health News<\/div>\n\t\t\t<div class=\"author-x\">\n\t\t\t<a class=\"icon-x author-link\" href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/jrovner\" title=\"@jrovner\">\n\t\t\t\t@jrovner\t\t\t<\/a>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<div class=\"author-bluesky\">\n\t\t\t<a class=\"icon-bluesky author-link\" href=\"https:\/\/bsky.app\/profile\/julierovner.bsky.social\" title=\"@julierovner.bsky.social\">\n\t\t\t\t@julierovner.bsky.social\t\t\t<\/a>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"author-stories-link\">\n\t\t\t<a class=\"author-link\" href=\"https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/news\/author\/julie-rovner\/\"> \n\t\t\t\tRead Julie&#039;s stories.\t\t\t<\/a>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t<div class=\"author-bio\">\n\t\t\tJulie Rovner is chief Washington correspondent and host of KFF Health News\u2019 weekly health policy news podcast, &quot;What the Health?&quot; A noted expert on health policy issues, Julie is the author of the critically praised reference book &quot;Health Care Politics and Policy A to Z,&quot; now in its third edition.\t\t<\/div>\n\t<\/div>\n<\/div>\n\n\t<\/div>\n<\/div>\n\n\n\n<p>The Food and Drug Administration is back in the headlines, with a political appointee overruling agency scientists to reject an application from the drugmaker Moderna for a new flu vaccine, and FDA Commissioner Marty Makary continuing to take criticism from anti-abortion Republicans in the Senate for alleged delays reviewing the safety of the abortion pill mifepristone.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Meanwhile, in a very unlikely pairing, Sen. Elizabeth Warren, the Massachusetts Democrat, and Sen. Josh Hawley, the conservative Republican from Missouri, are co-sponsoring legislation aimed at breaking up the \u201cvertical integration\u201d of health care \u2014 when a single company owns health insurers, drug middlemen, and clinician practices.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>This week\u2019s panelists are Julie Rovner of KFF Health News, Jackie Forti\u00e9r of KFF Health News, Lizzy Lawrence of Stat, and Alice Miranda Ollstein of Politico.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-people block--people\">\n\t\t<h3 class=\"people-title\">\n\t\tPanelists\t<\/h3>\n\t\t<div class=\"people-card-container threewide\">\n\t\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-people-card block--people-card\">\n\t\t\t\t<div class=\"author-image-container\">\n\t\t\t<img srcset=\"https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2026\/02\/Fortier-Jackie_900sq.jpg 900w, https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2026\/02\/Fortier-Jackie_900sq.jpg?resize=150,150 150w, https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2026\/02\/Fortier-Jackie_900sq.jpg?resize=500,500 500w, https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2026\/02\/Fortier-Jackie_900sq.jpg?resize=768,768 768w, https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2026\/02\/Fortier-Jackie_900sq.jpg?resize=480,480 480w, https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2026\/02\/Fortier-Jackie_900sq.jpg?resize=100,100 100w, https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2026\/02\/Fortier-Jackie_900sq.jpg?resize=120,120 120w, https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2026\/02\/Fortier-Jackie_900sq.jpg?resize=170,170 170w, https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2026\/02\/Fortier-Jackie_900sq.jpg?resize=300,300 300w, https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2026\/02\/Fortier-Jackie_900sq.jpg?resize=315,315 315w, https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2026\/02\/Fortier-Jackie_900sq.jpg?resize=630,630 630w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 767px) 100vw, 500px\" \/>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<div class=\"author-meta-container\">\n\t<div class=\"author-name\">Jackie Forti\u00e9r<\/div>\n\t<div class=\"author-affiliation\">KFF Health News<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"author-stories-link\">\n\t\t\t<a class=\"author-link\" href=\"https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/news\/author\/jackie-fortier\/\"> \n\t\t\t\tRead Jackie&#039;s stories.\t\t\t<\/a>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t<div class=\"author-bio\">\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t<\/div>\n<\/div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-people-card block--people-card\">\n\t\t\t\t<div class=\"author-image-container\">\n\t\t\t<img srcset=\"https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2025\/12\/Lawrence-Lizzy_1000sq.jpg 1000w, https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2025\/12\/Lawrence-Lizzy_1000sq.jpg?resize=150,150 150w, https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2025\/12\/Lawrence-Lizzy_1000sq.jpg?resize=500,500 500w, https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2025\/12\/Lawrence-Lizzy_1000sq.jpg?resize=768,768 768w, https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2025\/12\/Lawrence-Lizzy_1000sq.jpg?resize=480,480 480w, https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2025\/12\/Lawrence-Lizzy_1000sq.jpg?resize=100,100 100w, https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2025\/12\/Lawrence-Lizzy_1000sq.jpg?resize=120,120 120w, https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2025\/12\/Lawrence-Lizzy_1000sq.jpg?resize=170,170 170w, https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2025\/12\/Lawrence-Lizzy_1000sq.jpg?resize=300,300 300w, https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2025\/12\/Lawrence-Lizzy_1000sq.jpg?resize=315,315 315w, https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2025\/12\/Lawrence-Lizzy_1000sq.jpg?resize=630,630 630w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 767px) 100vw, 500px\" \/>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<div class=\"author-meta-container\">\n\t<div class=\"author-name\">Lizzy Lawrence<\/div>\n\t<div class=\"author-affiliation\">STAT News<\/div>\n\t\t\t<div class=\"author-x\">\n\t\t\t<a class=\"icon-x author-link\" href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/LizzyLaw_\" title=\"@LizzyLaw_\">\n\t\t\t\t@LizzyLaw_\t\t\t<\/a>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<div class=\"author-bluesky\">\n\t\t\t<a class=\"icon-bluesky author-link\" href=\"https:\/\/bsky.app\/profile\/lizzylawrence.bsky.social\" title=\"@lizzylawrence.bsky.social\">\n\t\t\t\t@lizzylawrence.bsky.social\t\t\t<\/a>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"author-stories-link\">\n\t\t\t<a class=\"author-link\" href=\"https:\/\/www.statnews.com\/staff\/lizzy-lawrence\/\"> \n\t\t\t\tReady Lizzy&#039;s stories.\t\t\t<\/a>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t<div class=\"author-bio\">\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t<\/div>\n<\/div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-people-card block--people-card\">\n\t\t\t\t<div class=\"author-image-container\">\n\t\t\t<img srcset=\"https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2023\/01\/Ollstein_800sq.jpg 800w, https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2023\/01\/Ollstein_800sq.jpg?resize=150,150 150w, https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2023\/01\/Ollstein_800sq.jpg?resize=500,500 500w, https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2023\/01\/Ollstein_800sq.jpg?resize=768,768 768w, https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2023\/01\/Ollstein_800sq.jpg?resize=480,480 480w, https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2023\/01\/Ollstein_800sq.jpg?resize=100,100 100w, https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2023\/01\/Ollstein_800sq.jpg?resize=120,120 120w, https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2023\/01\/Ollstein_800sq.jpg?resize=170,170 170w, https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2023\/01\/Ollstein_800sq.jpg?resize=300,300 300w, https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2023\/01\/Ollstein_800sq.jpg?resize=315,315 315w, https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2023\/01\/Ollstein_800sq.jpg?resize=630,630 630w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 767px) 100vw, 500px\" \/>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<div class=\"author-meta-container\">\n\t<div class=\"author-name\">Alice Miranda Ollstein<\/div>\n\t<div class=\"author-affiliation\">Politico<\/div>\n\t\t\t<div class=\"author-x\">\n\t\t\t<a class=\"icon-x author-link\" href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/AliceOllstein\" title=\"@AliceOllstein\">\n\t\t\t\t@AliceOllstein\t\t\t<\/a>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<div class=\"author-bluesky\">\n\t\t\t<a class=\"icon-bluesky author-link\" href=\"https:\/\/bsky.app\/profile\/alicemiranda.bsky.social\" title=\"@alicemiranda.bsky.social\">\n\t\t\t\t@alicemiranda.bsky.social\t\t\t<\/a>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"author-stories-link\">\n\t\t\t<a class=\"author-link\" href=\"https:\/\/www.politico.com\/staff\/alice-miranda-ollstein\"> \n\t\t\t\tRead Alice&#039;s stories.\t\t\t<\/a>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t<div class=\"author-bio\">\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t<\/div>\n<\/div>\n\n\t<\/div>\n<\/div>\n\n\n\n<p>Among the takeaways from this week\u2019s episode:<\/p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>A top FDA official overruled agency staff in refusing to consider Moderna\u2019s application for a new flu vaccine. The rejection, which Moderna is challenging, comes after the company consulted with the agency under President Joe Biden on how to develop the clinical trial for the vaccine and then spent considerable time and money. Clear, consistent federal guidance is important to maintaining the drug development ecosystem, and the decision stands as a warning to other companies developing new treatments.<\/li>\n\n\n\n<li>With measles cases rising and trust in federal vaccine recommendations falling, the Vaccine Integrity Project, based at the University of Minnesota\u2019s Center for Infectious Disease Research &amp; Policy, and the American Medical Association are launching their own vaccine review process \u2014 a parallel vaccine recommendation project offering an alternative to what are seen as ideologically driven federal recommendations.<\/li>\n\n\n\n<li>President Donald Trump unveiled the new TrumpRx website, billed as helping people save money on prescription drugs. But the site\u2019s offerings are limited and offer limited benefits: It serves only those trying to buy drugs without insurance coverage, and some of the biggest savings are on popular obesity drugs rather than other commonly needed treatments. Nonetheless, it offers Trump a chance to stamp his name on an effort to lower drug prices.<\/li>\n\n\n\n<li>And more reporting is illuminating the health-related side effects of Trump\u2019s immigration crackdown, including infectious disease outbreaks at detention centers. While at least some of the problems are not new to immigration enforcement, the large numbers of people being detained are intensifying the problems.<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n\n\n<div\n\tclass=\"wp-block block--newsletter  \"\n\tdata-type=\"kaiser-health-news\/newsletter\"\n\tdata-align=\"center\"\n\tstyle=\"\"\n>\n\t<h4 class=\"newsletter__title\">\n\t\t<a href=\"\/email\/\">\n\t\t\tEmail Sign-Up\t\t<\/a>\n\t<\/h4>\n\t<p class=\"newsletter__description\">\n\t\tSubscribe to KFF Health News&#039; free Morning Briefing.\t<\/p>\n\t\n<form\n\taction=\"\/email-signup\/\"\n\tclass=\"kaiser-hubspot-mini-signup-form\"\n\tmethod=\"post\"\n>\n\t<input type=\"hidden\" id=\"kaiser_hubspot_nonce\" name=\"kaiser_hubspot_nonce\" value=\"dc9818bd64\" \/><input type=\"hidden\" name=\"_wp_http_referer\" value=\"\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast\/2155188\" \/>\t\t\t\t<label\n\t\tclass=\"kaiser-hubspot-mini-signup-form__label--email\"\n\t\tfor=\"kaiser-hubspot-mini-signup-form-email\"\n\t>\n\t\t<span class=\"screen-reader-text\">\n\t\t\tYour Email Address\t\t<\/span>\n\t\t<input\n\t\t\tautocomplete=\"email\"\n\t\t\tclass=\"kaiser-hubspot-mini-signup-form__input--email\"\n\t\t\tid=\"kaiser-hubspot-mini-signup-form-email\"\n\t\t\tname=\"kaiser_hubspot_email\"\n\t\t\ttype=\"email\"\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\tplaceholder=\"Your email address\"\n\t\t\t\t\t\/>\n\t<\/label>\n\t<button class=\"kaiser-hubspot-mini-signup-form__submit\">\n\t\tSign Up\t<\/button>\n<\/form>\n<\/div>\n\n\n\n<p>Plus, for \u201cextra credit\u201d the panelists suggest health policy stories they read this week that they think you should read, too:&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Julie Rovner:<\/strong> ProPublica\u2019s \u201c<a href=\"https:\/\/www.propublica.org\/article\/life-inside-ice-dilley-children?utm_source=bluesky&amp;utm_medium=social&amp;utm_campaign=propublica-bsky&amp;utm_content=thread\">The Children of Dilley<\/a>,\u201d by Mica Rosenberg.&nbsp;&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Alice Miranda Ollstein:<\/strong> Politico\u2019s \u201c<a href=\"https:\/\/www.politico.com\/news\/2026\/02\/09\/oura-ring-lobbying-rfk-maha-washington-00770320\">Why Washington\u2019s All-In on Smart Rings<\/a>,\u201d by Amanda Chu.&nbsp;&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Lizzy Lawrence:<\/strong> KFF Health News\u2019 \u201c<a href=\"https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/news\/article\/ivermectin-cancer-treatment-nih-study-dewormer-offlabel-drug\/\">US Cancer Institute Studying Ivermectin\u2019s \u2018Ability To Kill Cancer Cells,\u2019<\/a>\u201d by Rachana Pradhan.&nbsp;&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Jackie Forti\u00e9r:<\/strong> Stat\u2019s \u201c<a href=\"https:\/\/www.statnews.com\/2026\/02\/10\/rsv-vaccine-schedule-denmark-norway-paid-leave-day-care\/\">The New Childhood Vaccine Guidelines Have a Paid Leave Problem<\/a>,\u201d by Ariana Hendrix.&nbsp;&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Also mentioned in this week\u2019s episode:<\/p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>Stat\u2019s \u201c<a href=\"https:\/\/www.statnews.com\/2026\/02\/11\/moderna-flu-vaccine-application-rejected-by-prasad-overruling-fda-staff\/\">Prasad Overruled FDA Staff To Reject Moderna\u2019s Flu Vaccine Application<\/a>,\u201d by Lizzy Lawrence.<\/li>\n\n\n\n<li>KFF Health News\u2019 \u201c<a href=\"https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/news\/article\/us-public-health-service-resignations-guantanamo-immigration-detention\/\">Public Health Workers Are Quitting Over Assignments to Guant\u00e1namo<\/a>,\u201d by Amy Maxmen.<\/li>\n\n\n\n<li>KFF Health News\u2019 \u201c<a href=\"https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/news\/article\/ice-immigrants-hospitals-detainees-patients-rights-family-blackout-policies-california\/\">\u2018I Can\u2019t Tell You\u2019: Attorneys, Relatives Struggle To Find Hospitalized ICE Detainees<\/a>,\u201d by Claudia Boyd-Barrett.<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n\n\n\n<section class=\"block--expandable has-label\"\n\t\t\tid=\"podcast-expandable\"\n\t>\n\t\t\t<input type=\"checkbox\" name=\"expandable-radio\" id=\"strong-transcript-new-flu-vax-fda-says-no-thanks-strong\">\n\t\t<label class=\"expandable__title-label\" for=\"strong-transcript-new-flu-vax-fda-says-no-thanks-strong\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<span\n\t\t\t\t\tclass=\"expandable__label  \"\n\t\t\t\t\tstyle=\"background-color: #004b87;\"\n\t\t\t\t>\n\t\t\t\t\tClick to open the transcript\t\t\t\t<\/span>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<span\n\t\t\t\t\tclass=\"expandable__title\"\n\t\t\t\t\tstyle=\"font-size: 36px;\"\n\t\t\t\t>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<strong>Transcript: New Flu Vax? FDA Says No Thanks<\/strong>\t\t\t\t<\/span>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/label>\n\t\t<div class=\"expandable__content--container\">\n\t\t<div class=\"expandable__content\">\n\t\t\t\n\n<p><em>[<\/em><strong><em>Editor\u2019s note:<\/em><\/strong><em>&nbsp;This transcript&nbsp;was generated&nbsp;using both transcription software and a human\u2019s light touch. It has&nbsp;been edited&nbsp;for style and clarity.]<\/em>&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Julie Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;Hello from KFF Health News and WAMU&nbsp;public radio&nbsp;in Washington, D.C. Welcome to&nbsp;<em>What the Health?<\/em>&nbsp;I\u2019m&nbsp;Julie Rovner, chief Washington correspondent for KFF Health News, and&nbsp;I\u2019m&nbsp;joined by&nbsp;some of&nbsp;the best and smartest health reporters covering Washington.&nbsp;We\u2019re&nbsp;taping this week on Thursday, Feb. 12, at 10 a.m. As always, news happens fast, and things might have changed by the time you hear this. So,&nbsp;here we go.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Today,&nbsp;we&nbsp;are joined&nbsp;via&nbsp;videoconference by Alice Miranda&nbsp;Ollstein&nbsp;of Politico.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Alice Miranda&nbsp;Ollstein:<\/strong>&nbsp;Hello.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;Lizzy Lawrence&nbsp;of&nbsp;Stat&nbsp;News.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Lizzy Lawrence:<\/strong>&nbsp;Hi.&nbsp;&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;And up early to join us from California, my KFF Health News colleague&nbsp;Jackie&nbsp;Forti\u00e9r. Welcome, Jackie.&nbsp;&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Jackie&nbsp;Forti\u00e9r:<\/strong>&nbsp;Hey,&nbsp;everyone.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rovner:&nbsp;<\/strong>No interview this week, but&nbsp;plenty of&nbsp;news.&nbsp;So&nbsp;let\u2019s&nbsp;jump right in. We will start this week at the Food and Drug Administration, where things are&nbsp;\u2014 why&nbsp;don\u2019t&nbsp;we call it&nbsp;\u2014&nbsp;newsmaking. The biggest FDA story that broke this week was controversial vaccine chief Vinay Prasad outright rejecting an application for a new flu vaccine from&nbsp;Moderna, maker of the mRNA covid vaccine that so many anti-vaxxers have criticized. Lizzy, you&nbsp;<a href=\"https:\/\/www.statnews.com\/2026\/02\/11\/moderna-flu-vaccine-application-rejected-by-prasad-overruling-fda-staff\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">broke this story<\/a>. Congratulations. What happened exactly?&nbsp;And why is this&nbsp;such a big deal&nbsp;beyond the flu vaccine?&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Lawrence:<\/strong>&nbsp;This&nbsp;is a big deal&nbsp;because to refuse to file is a pretty rare occurrence in general, because in general the FDA and industry like to have agreed-upon standards for clinical trials before companies embark on them and&nbsp;pour millions of dollars into them. So that was surprising. And then\u2014&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;And refuse to file means that they said that&nbsp;they\u2019ve&nbsp;got the application and said:&nbsp;<em>Yeah,&nbsp;we\u2019re&nbsp;not accepting that.&nbsp;We\u2019re&nbsp;not going to review this.<\/em>&nbsp;Right?&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Lawrence:<\/strong>&nbsp;Yes, yes. And Prasad wrote that the&nbsp;grounds&nbsp;for this was that it&nbsp;wasn\u2019t&nbsp;an adequate, controlled trial. Well,&nbsp;Moderna is saying that&nbsp;actually the&nbsp;FDA greenlit this trial back under the Biden administration in 2024. They acknowledged that there was&nbsp;basically a&nbsp;control vaccine that the FDA&nbsp;say&nbsp;they&nbsp;would prefer that&nbsp;Moderna use for the older population. But they said, however,&nbsp;it\u2019s&nbsp;acceptable if you&nbsp;don\u2019t&nbsp;do that.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;And I want to make sure I understand this. The complication here is that this is supposed to be a better vaccine for older people, but right now there\u2019s vaccines for older people that start at age 65 and this is a vaccine&nbsp;that\u2019s&nbsp;supposed to start at age 50, right?&nbsp;So&nbsp;it was unclear who they were going to&nbsp;test&nbsp;it against, whether it was going to be the 50-to-64s or the 65s and older. Because there&nbsp;isn\u2019t&nbsp;a vaccine right now&nbsp;that\u2019s&nbsp;approved for 50 and up, right?&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Lawrence:<\/strong>&nbsp;Exactly, exactly. So it was there\u2019s the high-dose vaccine, which&nbsp;is recommended&nbsp;for the above-65s,&nbsp;but that&nbsp;is not recommended&nbsp;for the 50-to-64,&nbsp;which is part of why&nbsp;Moderna didn\u2019t use that high-dose vaccine, because the population that they were studying was broader than this over-65s. So anyway, so&nbsp;yeah, so refusing to file is already rare, and then for there to be an overriding refuse to file, where the,&nbsp;I&nbsp;was told, basically, while&nbsp;there may have been individuals who agreed with Dr.&nbsp;Prasad\u2019s&nbsp;assessment, the review team,&nbsp;every discipline,&nbsp;thought that it was reviewable. And the head of vaccines wrote a memo explaining why he thought it was&nbsp;viable, so that the career staff&nbsp;kind of documented&nbsp;their thoughts here.&nbsp;It\u2019s&nbsp;not clear whether this will&nbsp;be made&nbsp;public ever, but one would hope,&nbsp;with radical transparency, but&nbsp;we\u2019ll&nbsp;see. Despite that, Dr.&nbsp;Prasad still refused to review&nbsp;Moderna\u2019s application.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;So obviously&nbsp;it\u2019s&nbsp;a big deal for the flu vaccine, but&nbsp;it\u2019s&nbsp;a big deal beyond this. Moderna\u2019s&nbsp;CEO was on cable news this morning, said that, as you said, after consulting with the FDA officials about the trial, they spent a billion dollars on this trial. How do we expect companies to invest in new medicines like this if the FDA is&nbsp;basically acting&nbsp;on vibes?&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Lawrence:<\/strong>&nbsp;I&nbsp;don\u2019t&nbsp;know.&nbsp;Yeah. And&nbsp;it\u2019s&nbsp;interesting. It&nbsp;doesn\u2019t&nbsp;seem like&nbsp;there\u2019s&nbsp;a ton of sympathy&nbsp;from&nbsp;this administration. Even back last year,&nbsp;[FDA]&nbsp;Commissioner&nbsp;[Marty]&nbsp;Makary tweeted something&nbsp;\u2014 this was when they were limiting, wanted to require more data for covid vaccines for the under-65 crowd. And&nbsp;I think he&nbsp;said something like:&nbsp;<em>Our goal is not to save companies money.<\/em>&nbsp;<em>That\u2019s&nbsp;not something&nbsp;we<\/em>&nbsp;\u2014&nbsp;which&nbsp;of&nbsp;course that&nbsp;isn\u2019t.&nbsp;The FDA\u2019s&nbsp;goal is to promote public health. But&nbsp;it\u2019s&nbsp;definitely a&nbsp;change in tune. I think that in the past, the FDA has understood that you\u2019re&nbsp;really only&nbsp;going to get innovation if you have clear, consistent guidance and that it\u2019s a&nbsp;really worst-case&nbsp;scenario for a company to spend a billion dollars on a clinical trial and then there\u2019s nothing to show for it and nothing for it to benefit patients,&nbsp;either. So.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;Is this over? What&nbsp;happens&nbsp;now?&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Lawrence:<\/strong>&nbsp;So now&nbsp;Moderna has requested a meeting to challenge this decision, and now there begins a kind of negotiation. It might be possible&nbsp;that&nbsp;the FDA would, in fact,&nbsp;would review&nbsp;at&nbsp;least the 50-to-64 cohort, because they&nbsp;don\u2019t&nbsp;have any objections&nbsp;there, seemingly. But&nbsp;we\u2019ll&nbsp;have to see. On a call yesterday, a senior FDA official talked about&nbsp;Moderna&nbsp;kind of coming&nbsp;to the agency with humility and acknowledging that the FDA had recommended this high-dose vaccine. And&nbsp;so&nbsp;I&nbsp;don\u2019t&nbsp;know.&nbsp;I think companies&nbsp;are definitely&nbsp;\u2014&nbsp;it\u2019s&nbsp;a lesson that&nbsp;they\u2019re, especially if&nbsp;you\u2019re&nbsp;in the vaccine space, you&nbsp;have to&nbsp;tread very carefully.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;Yeah. And I would&nbsp;think&nbsp;others in the drug space,&nbsp;too.&nbsp;It\u2019s&nbsp;not just&nbsp;\u2014&nbsp;that\u2019s&nbsp;the point of this&nbsp;\u2014&nbsp;it\u2019s&nbsp;not just vaccines.&nbsp;Alice, you wanted&nbsp;to say something.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Ollstein:<\/strong>&nbsp;Oh,&nbsp;yeah.&nbsp;Not only the monetary investment, which&nbsp;we\u2019ve&nbsp;touched on a bunch, but&nbsp;companies spend years.&nbsp;So&nbsp;it\u2019s&nbsp;the&nbsp;time investment as well. And why would you dedicate years of effort to something that&nbsp;you\u2019re&nbsp;not sure if a political appointee is going to swoop in and override career scientific officials\u2019&nbsp;assessment, if&nbsp;you&nbsp;can\u2019t&nbsp;trust the regulatory system to work as&nbsp;it\u2019s&nbsp;always worked. There really is just&nbsp;a lot of&nbsp;risk there, and you&nbsp;might see people not making these submissions on all kinds of fronts.&nbsp;Of course, this is coming as we\u2019ve had a&nbsp;really bad&nbsp;flu season.&nbsp;I\u2019ve had people in my life get&nbsp;really sick&nbsp;and say it\u2019s been really,&nbsp;really bad.&nbsp;So&nbsp;the prospect of having something that works better to prevent,&nbsp;or even just make it milder,&nbsp;not coming to fruition&nbsp;is rough.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;Yeah. And this year, as we know, this year\u2019s flu vaccine was not very well matched to the strains that ended up circulating. And that\u2019s&nbsp;kind of the&nbsp;point of this&nbsp;Moderna vaccine, this mRNA vaccine, is that they say it would be much faster for them to match strains to&nbsp;what\u2019s&nbsp;going around. If it works as the clinical trials suggest it would&nbsp;actually be&nbsp;a better flu vaccine than we have now.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Well, meanwhile, cases of measles are also continuing to multiply, as they do when people&nbsp;aren\u2019t vaccinated, and not just in the places we\u2019ve talked about, like Texas and South Carolina, but also all around us here in the nation\u2019s capital, apparently,&nbsp;as a result of&nbsp;people traveling here for the anti-abortion March for Life in January. There have been more than 730 confirmed cases of measles in the U.S.&nbsp;already this year.&nbsp;That\u2019s&nbsp;four times more than have been typical for a full year, and&nbsp;it\u2019s&nbsp;not yet the middle of February. Yet that&nbsp;doesn\u2019t&nbsp;seem to be deterring the administration from its anti-vaccine activities. So now, the American Medical Association and the University of Minnesota&nbsp;Vaccine&nbsp;Integrity&nbsp;Project have announced&nbsp;they\u2019ll&nbsp;convene&nbsp;a parallel group of experts to make vaccine recommendations,&nbsp;basically saying&nbsp;they&nbsp;are done&nbsp;following the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. This has been brewing for a while.&nbsp;Right,&nbsp;Lizzy?&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Lawrence:<\/strong>&nbsp;Yes. As soon as the secretary fired&nbsp;all of&nbsp;the experts who served&nbsp;on the advisory panel to the CDC on vaccines, I think&nbsp;there\u2019s&nbsp;been unease. And now, as you said,&nbsp;there\u2019s&nbsp;an active parallel public health establishment&nbsp;that\u2019s&nbsp;trying to spread credible information and provide an alternative resource, because&nbsp;it\u2019s&nbsp;clear that HHS&nbsp;[the Department of Health and Human Services]&nbsp;has become compromised when it comes to vaccine recommendations. And yet,&nbsp;you\u2019re&nbsp;seeing the spread of infectious diseases right now.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Forti\u00e9r:<\/strong>&nbsp;Having&nbsp;kind of this&nbsp;rival court is not surprising, because&nbsp;they\u2019ve&nbsp;refused to&nbsp;participate&nbsp;in any of the Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices meetings for&nbsp;months and months. I do wonder if this will&nbsp;maybe change&nbsp;some of&nbsp;the tone. We do have an upcoming ACIP meeting in February. Normally we would have&nbsp;a&nbsp;agenda out by now.&nbsp;Before Secretary&nbsp;[Robert F.]&nbsp;Kennedy&nbsp;[Jr.]&nbsp;we would have them weeks in advance,&nbsp;and we haven\u2019t seen one yet, so we\u2019re&nbsp;really not&nbsp;totally sure&nbsp;what they\u2019re going to be talking about.&nbsp;But Dr.&nbsp;[Mehmet]&nbsp;Oz did say this week that he finally&nbsp;advised people&nbsp;\u2014&nbsp;he\u2019s&nbsp;the CMS&nbsp;[Centers&nbsp;for&nbsp;Medicare &amp; Medicaid Services]&nbsp;director\u2014&nbsp;to take the vaccine.&nbsp;And&nbsp;there\u2019s&nbsp;been over 933&nbsp;cases in just South Carolina during this outbreak that started last October. And so when I talk to people on the ground who are treating folks in South Carolina and have been treating them for months, and they\u2019ve been doing vaccine clinics and things like that, they&nbsp;were just so fed&nbsp;up with Dr.&nbsp;Oz and the administration, because they partially blame them for these various outbreaks. And I had one of them tell me, like, well,&nbsp;it\u2019s&nbsp;like a band-aid on a bullet hole. Like, now&nbsp;they\u2019re&nbsp;finally encouraging people to get vaccinated when we could have had this months ago.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;And,&nbsp;of course, the CDC&nbsp;doesn\u2019t&nbsp;have a director&nbsp;at the moment,&nbsp;because the Senate-approved director&nbsp;was summarily fired&nbsp;and\/or quit, not clear&nbsp;which,&nbsp;after refusing to&nbsp;basically rubber-stamp&nbsp;the immunization panel\u2019s recommendations that had not&nbsp;been made&nbsp;at the time.&nbsp;So&nbsp;the American Academy of Pediatrics is suing to stop this February ACIP meeting. I did not hear what the last decision was on that, but I know that&nbsp;there\u2019s&nbsp;still&nbsp;a lot of&nbsp;movement around here.&nbsp;I guess the big worry&nbsp;is:&nbsp;Who should the public trust now? Is it going to be this&nbsp;sort of grouping of medical societies led by the AMA, or the CDC, which people and doctors&nbsp;are used&nbsp;to following the advice of?&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Ollstein:<\/strong>&nbsp;And&nbsp;there\u2019s&nbsp;all these state alliances forming to do the same thing. And&nbsp;so&nbsp;I think,&nbsp;yeah, the more competing recommendations&nbsp;the average person&nbsp;hears, the more they just&nbsp;sort of throw&nbsp;their hands up and say:&nbsp;<em>I&nbsp;don\u2019t&nbsp;even know who to trust anymore.&nbsp;I\u2019m&nbsp;not listening to any of these people.<\/em>&nbsp;And the trust that\u2019s eroded in the federal government,&nbsp;that\u2019s going to be&nbsp;really hard&nbsp;to recuperate in the future.&nbsp;You&nbsp;can\u2019t&nbsp;just flip a switch and say:&nbsp;<em>OK,&nbsp;it\u2019s&nbsp;a different government. We trust them again.<\/em>&nbsp;Once those seeds of doubt&nbsp;are planted&nbsp;in people\u2019s minds, it\u2019s&nbsp;really hard&nbsp;to unearth.&nbsp;And so, if not permanent damage, all of this is doing at least very long-term damage to the idea of&nbsp;expertise&nbsp;and authoritative information.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;And science, which this administration insists it wants to follow. Well, turning to FDA-related&nbsp;\u201cMAHA\u201d [\u201cMake America&nbsp;Healthy&nbsp;Again\u201d]&nbsp;news, the agency said last week it would relax enforcement of its food additive regulations to make it easier for manufacturers to say&nbsp;they\u2019re&nbsp;not using artificial dyes. Now this was a huge deal when the agency announced the phaseout of artificial coloring. Looking at you,&nbsp;fancy-colored Froot Loops. Now the administration says&nbsp;it\u2019s&nbsp;going to allow&nbsp;foodmakers&nbsp;to say&nbsp;they\u2019re&nbsp;not using artificial colors as long as&nbsp;they\u2019re&nbsp;not using petroleum-based dyes.&nbsp;Apparently, natural&nbsp;dyes are&nbsp;OK. But even that is controversial, and&nbsp;it appears that this whole effort&nbsp;really relies on manufacturers\u2019&nbsp;willingness to comply rather than, you know, actual regulation, which is&nbsp;kind of what&nbsp;the FDA does for a living.&nbsp;It\u2019s&nbsp;a regulatory agency.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Ollstein:<\/strong>&nbsp;Well, every time the word&nbsp;\u201cnatural\u201d&nbsp;comes up, I always laugh because there is no definition of that. And there are&nbsp;plenty of&nbsp;things that are natural that could kill you or hurt you very badly. And there are&nbsp;plenty of&nbsp;things that&nbsp;are&nbsp;synthetically manufactured&nbsp;that are helpful and fine for you. And&nbsp;so&nbsp;it has this veneer of safety, veneer of health with no actual substance.&nbsp;So&nbsp;my red flags go up whenever I hear that word, and I think everyone should be skeptical.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;But it goes with RFK Jr.\u2019s quest now that you should,&nbsp;quote,&nbsp;\u201ceat real food.\u201d&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Lawrence:<\/strong>&nbsp;Right.&nbsp;Yeah.&nbsp;I was going to&nbsp;say same with&nbsp;\u201cchemical.\u201d&nbsp;I feel like,&nbsp;\u201cchemical\u201d&nbsp;abortion drug,&nbsp;\u201cchemical.\u201d&nbsp;And&nbsp;it\u2019s&nbsp;like,&nbsp;a lot of&nbsp;things are chemicals.&nbsp;That\u2019s&nbsp;not\u2014&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Ollstein:<\/strong>&nbsp;Yeah, like in your own body, naturally.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Lawrence:<\/strong>&nbsp;Yeah.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Ollstein:<\/strong>&nbsp;You have chemicals.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Lawrence:<\/strong>&nbsp;We are chemicals.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Ollstein:<\/strong>&nbsp;We are chemicals.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;You guys are all too young to remember the Dow Chemical advertising line&nbsp;\u201cBetter Living Through Chemistry,\u201d&nbsp;which at the time,&nbsp;in the&nbsp;\u201960s and&nbsp;\u201970s, was true.&nbsp;There was,&nbsp;there&nbsp;\u2014&nbsp;we\u2019ve&nbsp;had&nbsp;a&nbsp;lot of&nbsp;better living through chemistry. And&nbsp;some of&nbsp;it has turned out to be&nbsp;maybe not&nbsp;so good for us, but&nbsp;a lot of&nbsp;it has turned out to be pretty darn good for us.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Well, finally, in FDA&nbsp;land,&nbsp;Commissioner Marty Makary this week met with anti-abortion senators about that ongoing review of the abortion pill&nbsp;mifepristone, which senators want the FDA to remove from the market. Alice,&nbsp;how\u2019d&nbsp;that meeting go?&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Ollstein:<\/strong>&nbsp;Not great for the FDA,&nbsp;from what I&nbsp;was told.&nbsp;I got on the phone with Sen.&nbsp;Josh Hawley after it, and he was extremely frustrated. He said he&nbsp;didn\u2019t&nbsp;get answers to any of the questions&nbsp;he\u2019s&nbsp;been sending in public letters to the FDA for months and now asking in this briefing behind closed doors that they held&nbsp;on&nbsp;Capitol Hill this week.&nbsp;He said he&nbsp;didn\u2019t&nbsp;get answers about what the timeline is for this review of the abortion pill mifepristone, what the review consists of,&nbsp;whether&nbsp;it\u2019s&nbsp;even begun, really, whether&nbsp;it\u2019s&nbsp;even underway. And&nbsp;so&nbsp;he is&nbsp;sort of concluding&nbsp;that this is not going anywhere, and he wants Congress to step in and&nbsp;take action.&nbsp;Now,&nbsp;Congress has tried to step in and&nbsp;take action&nbsp;before.&nbsp;They\u2019ve&nbsp;tried to put restrictions on mifepristone in the FDA funding bill.&nbsp;That&nbsp;didn\u2019t&nbsp;pass.&nbsp;So&nbsp;I&nbsp;don\u2019t&nbsp;know if this is even plausible in this environment where Congress&nbsp;can\u2019t&nbsp;really pass much of anything anymore.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>But&nbsp;Hawley&nbsp;is&nbsp;not just another Republican senator. He is very intertwined with the anti-abortion movement. His wife is an&nbsp;extremely prominent anti-abortion lawyer&nbsp;who\u2019s&nbsp;led&nbsp;a lot of&nbsp;the major cases trying to restrict or ban mifepristone. They founded their own anti-abortion advocacy group. And&nbsp;so&nbsp;it really shows that the&nbsp;tensions,&nbsp;clashes, whatever we want to call them, between the anti-abortion movement and the Trump administration, so after backing the Trump administration for years and years,&nbsp;they\u2019re&nbsp;really&nbsp;getting fed&nbsp;up. And&nbsp;they\u2019re&nbsp;fed up that even after they achieved their grand goal of overturning&nbsp;<em>Roe v.&nbsp;Wade<\/em>, there are&nbsp;actually more&nbsp;abortions happening now than before, and&nbsp;that\u2019s&nbsp;largely through&nbsp;these pills and people\u2019s ability to get them. And&nbsp;so&nbsp;they\u2019re&nbsp;getting increasingly impatient with the Trump administration, who has been&nbsp;sort of stringing&nbsp;them along and saying:&nbsp;<em>Yeah,&nbsp;we\u2019re&nbsp;working on it.&nbsp;We\u2019re&nbsp;working on it.<\/em>&nbsp;But they want to see&nbsp;results. Now, of course, if there were&nbsp;some&nbsp;sort of restrictions imposed, that could have a big political effect. And&nbsp;so&nbsp;a lot of&nbsp;Republicans are very torn about that. But not Sen.&nbsp;Hawley. Sen.&nbsp;Hawley&nbsp;wants to see it.&nbsp;&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;That\u2019s&nbsp;right. Well, moving to what I call FDA-adjacent news, one of the&nbsp;many&nbsp;thorny&nbsp;issues that FDA has been dealing with is the compounding of those&nbsp;very popular&nbsp;and very pricey obesity drugs. When the drugs were in shortage, it was legal for compounders to make their own copies. But now the shortage for&nbsp;both of the leading&nbsp;medications&nbsp;\u2014&nbsp;semaglutide, made by Novo Nordisk,&nbsp;and&nbsp;tirzepatide, made by Eli Lilly&nbsp;\u2014&nbsp;is over, and those cheaper copycats were supposed to&nbsp;be pulled&nbsp;from the market.&nbsp;So&nbsp;it was a bit of a surprise when the company Hims, one of those direct-to-consumer drug sites, announced the unveiling of a semaglutide tablet just weeks after the first such drug&nbsp;was approved&nbsp;by the FDA, by Novo Nordisk. The FDA promptly referred the company to the Justice Department for&nbsp;possible violation&nbsp;of federal drug laws, after which&nbsp;Hims&nbsp;said,&nbsp;<em>Oh,&nbsp;maybe we&nbsp;won\u2019t&nbsp;start selling the drug after all.<\/em>&nbsp;Oh, and Novo is&nbsp;suing for&nbsp;patent infringement. But I would think that the war over the&nbsp;\u201cfat\u201d&nbsp;drugs, as President&nbsp;[Donald]&nbsp;Trump likes to call them, is likely to lower prices just as effectively as government regulation might. Or am I misreading that? Lizzy, this has been quite the sideshow, if you will.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Lawrence:<\/strong>&nbsp;Yeah. It might. I think that the compounding,&nbsp;the FDA\u2019s crackdown on&nbsp;Hims was&nbsp;very interesting&nbsp;to me because I think before the commissioner had come into his role, there was&nbsp;some&nbsp;speculation.&nbsp;He had worked for a telehealth company that prescribed compounded drugs. And&nbsp;there\u2019s&nbsp;also, I think&nbsp;compounders have tried to tap into a little bit of the MAHA medical freedom aspect. But clearly&nbsp;that\u2019s&nbsp;not been&nbsp;the case, at&nbsp;least at the FDA. They are clearly&nbsp;very upset&nbsp;about this&nbsp;and&nbsp;mean business, and I think&nbsp;it\u2019s&nbsp;tying&nbsp;into their crackdown on direct-to-consumer drug advertising as well. But as far as&nbsp;price,&nbsp;yeah. I think the deals that Trump has managed to strike with the companies&nbsp;could&nbsp;actually be&nbsp;reducing price for patients. I think&nbsp;we\u2019ll&nbsp;have to see.&nbsp;I know there\u2019s obviously drug pricing programs&nbsp;as well that&nbsp;they could pursue. So,&nbsp;yeah,&nbsp;we\u2019ll&nbsp;have to see.&nbsp;&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;All right. Well,&nbsp;we\u2019re&nbsp;going to&nbsp;take a quick break. We will be right back.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>OK.&nbsp;We\u2019re&nbsp;back.&nbsp;And speaking of President Trump,&nbsp;there\u2019s&nbsp;also&nbsp;drug news this week&nbsp;that\u2019s&nbsp;not&nbsp;directly related&nbsp;to the FDA.&nbsp;That\u2019s&nbsp;the official unveiling of&nbsp;TrumpRx, the website the&nbsp;president says will lower drug prices like no one\u2019s&nbsp;\u201cever seen before.\u201d&nbsp;That\u2019s&nbsp;a direct&nbsp;quote, by the way. Except it turns out&nbsp;that\u2019s&nbsp;not quite the&nbsp;case. First, these discounts are only for people who are paying out-of-pocket, not those with insurance, which makes them valuable mostly for people who have no coverage or people who take drugs that insurance often&nbsp;doesn\u2019t&nbsp;cover, like those for obesity or infertility. Yet of the 43 drugs so far that&nbsp;are promoted&nbsp;on the&nbsp;TrumpRx&nbsp;website, about half already have cheaper generic copies available through sites like&nbsp;GoodRx&nbsp;and Mark Cuban\u2019s&nbsp;Cost&nbsp;Plus&nbsp;Drugs. And really, the website just points people to already existing manufacturer websites that were already offering those lower prices.&nbsp;So&nbsp;what is the point of&nbsp;TrumpRx?&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Lawrence:<\/strong>&nbsp;Great question.&nbsp;Yeah.&nbsp;This administration has been&nbsp;very focused&nbsp;on, obviously, media and wins&nbsp;and&nbsp;attaching President Trump\u2019s name to things.&nbsp;So&nbsp;it&nbsp;accomplishes&nbsp;that goal.&nbsp;Maybe it&nbsp;does raise awareness for these other sites that already exist. But that\u2019s a theme of&nbsp;a lot of&nbsp;the movement on health&nbsp;care so far,&nbsp;has been&nbsp;\u2014&nbsp;there\u2019s been&nbsp;a lot of&nbsp;chaos, and then there\u2019s also sometimes things that they announce as like a grand,&nbsp;brand-new,&nbsp;no-one\u2019s-ever-thought-of-it-before policy, but then there are already, of course, existing programs or avenues for that.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;And to be fair, Trump has&nbsp;jawboned&nbsp;down&nbsp;some&nbsp;prices, including&nbsp;some&nbsp;prices for the obesity drugs,&nbsp;by&nbsp;basically dragging&nbsp;in the CEOs of these companies and saying,&nbsp;<em>You&nbsp;will lower prices.<\/em>&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Lawrence:<\/strong>&nbsp;Yeah,&nbsp;yeah. The dealmaking has been effective. And&nbsp;I think the question&nbsp;is: Will this last beyond his administration? Will there be a legacy there?&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Ollstein:<\/strong>&nbsp;I think&nbsp;there\u2019s&nbsp;also&nbsp;some&nbsp;danger in&nbsp;overpromising, because&nbsp;he\u2019s&nbsp;out there saying things that&nbsp;don\u2019t&nbsp;comport with how math works.&nbsp;He\u2019s&nbsp;basically suggesting&nbsp;prices will come down so many percents that&nbsp;we\u2019ll&nbsp;be getting paid to take drugs, because&nbsp;that\u2019s&nbsp;what more than 100%&nbsp;is. And people who are hearing that, voters who are hearing that, if they aren\u2019t seeing that show up in their bills, if they\u2019re not actually seeing those drastic, drastic drops that they\u2019re&nbsp;being promised&nbsp;by the&nbsp;president,&nbsp;are they going to get upset? And is that going to&nbsp;impact&nbsp;how they vote? So yes, there has been&nbsp;some,&nbsp;on&nbsp;the&nbsp;margins,&nbsp;improvements, but when&nbsp;you\u2019re&nbsp;out there promising 600% reductions&nbsp;and not delivering,&nbsp;there\u2019s&nbsp;a risk to that.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;Jackie, you wanted to add something.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Forti\u00e9r:<\/strong>&nbsp;Well, I was going to&nbsp;say, I think it\u2019s also confusing for a lot of people, from a consumer perspective, because&nbsp;you log on and I think people, they hear these huge promises, like Alice is talking about, and then they think that they can, necessarily, buy the drugs through there and&nbsp;immediately get them shipped, what these third parties like&nbsp;Hims and Weight Watchers are doing a lot of&nbsp;with the GLP-1s. And&nbsp;that\u2019s&nbsp;not how this works.&nbsp;You still have another step of getting a prescription and then going to the pharmacy and&nbsp;using these to potentially get&nbsp;discounts&nbsp;and lower prices,&nbsp;in the same way that&nbsp;these have been available from pharmaceutical manufacturers and other things like&nbsp;GoodRx&nbsp;for years. But it\u2019s that disconnect between, even if you can get a discount,&nbsp;actually getting&nbsp;the discount and crediting the Trump administration for that that I think is going to be&nbsp;really difficult&nbsp;for&nbsp;a lot of&nbsp;voters to make that connection in the way that the administration wants them to.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;And this was ever the case with rebates&nbsp;\u2014&nbsp;for other consumer products, not just talking about drugs.&nbsp;<em>We\u2019ll&nbsp;give you a $15 rebate, but you&nbsp;have to&nbsp;fill out 87 forms and&nbsp;send it to this place and get it exactly right, do&nbsp;it before the end date, and&nbsp;we\u2019ll&nbsp;send you back $15.<\/em>&nbsp;Because they count on most people not being able or willing to follow&nbsp;all of&nbsp;the various steps. So instead of giving everybody the discounted price, they make you&nbsp;really basically&nbsp;work for your discount, which is a consumer thing, but it\u2019s&nbsp;pretty popular&nbsp;in&nbsp;the drug&nbsp;space as well. Rather than just lowering prices,&nbsp;they\u2019re&nbsp;going to say,&nbsp;<em>We&nbsp;will give you a discount, but&nbsp;you\u2019re&nbsp;going to have to do this, that,&nbsp;and the other thing&nbsp;in order to&nbsp;get it.<\/em>&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Forti\u00e9r:<\/strong>&nbsp;Right.&nbsp;But when&nbsp;you\u2019re&nbsp;president and you want credit for it,&nbsp;it\u2019s&nbsp;going to be a little more&nbsp;\u2014&nbsp;it\u2019s&nbsp;harder&nbsp;in order to&nbsp;make that connection. Sorry.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;Yes,&nbsp;that\u2019s&nbsp;true. That is a good point. All right,&nbsp;moving&nbsp;on. We have talked&nbsp;a lot&nbsp;about consolidation in the health&nbsp;care industry, particularly companies like UnitedHealthcare, which used to be just an insurer, now owns its own PBM&nbsp;[pharmacy benefit manager], its own claims processing company, and&nbsp;thousands&nbsp;of medical practices around the country. Well, now an extremely unlikely pair in the Senate, Massachusetts Democrat Elizabeth Warren and Missouri Republican Josh Hawley,&nbsp;have joined to introduce something called the&nbsp;Break&nbsp;Up&nbsp;Big&nbsp;Medicine Act, which would&nbsp;basically outlaw&nbsp;so-called vertical integration, like that of&nbsp;United and,&nbsp;to a&nbsp;somewhat lesser&nbsp;extent, Cigna and CVS Health, which owns Aetna, the insurer.&nbsp;Some&nbsp;are referring to this as the health version of the 1932 Glass-Steagall Act, which separated commercial from investment banking&nbsp;\u2014 and,&nbsp;side note, whose repeal in 1999&nbsp;is considered&nbsp;a major factor setting off the&nbsp;financial crisis&nbsp;of 2008.&nbsp;But that was a&nbsp;risk&nbsp;thing. It&nbsp;was done&nbsp;to prevent another stock market crash like the one in 1929.&nbsp;This is a&nbsp;cost&nbsp;thing. This is to go after high health care costs. Could it work? Could it pass? And is this the beginning of the next&nbsp;big thing&nbsp;in health reform?&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Lawrence:<\/strong>&nbsp;Perhaps.&nbsp;Yeah. Last year,&nbsp;I&nbsp;worked with my colleagues on&nbsp;<a href=\"https:\/\/www.statnews.com\/unitedhealth-group-investigation-health-care-colossus-series\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">a series<\/a>&nbsp;kind of examining UnitedHealth Group and the effects of consolidation on doctors and patients. And at the time, I think,&nbsp;there were&nbsp;some&nbsp;vocal lawmakers on either side of the aisle who were criticizing this, especially in the wake of the murder of the UnitedHealth CEO, and which had a surprising&nbsp;\u2014&nbsp;the public sort of had this reaction&nbsp;and&nbsp;to\u2014&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;Not in United\u2019s favor.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Lawrence:<\/strong>&nbsp;Not in United\u2019s favor. And so&nbsp;I think that there&nbsp;is, this is a political issue that affects&nbsp;everyone, Republican and Democrat, the,&nbsp;well,&nbsp;cost in general, but I think there\u2019s&nbsp;a lot of&nbsp;resentment and anger, and it seems like that is bringing together these&nbsp;unlikely and pretty powerful senators.&nbsp;I\u2019m&nbsp;not an expert on&nbsp;the&nbsp;Hill. I&nbsp;don\u2019t&nbsp;know if this has a chance. Especially,&nbsp;it\u2019s&nbsp;targeting massive, powerful companies with hands in every part of the health care system.&nbsp;So&nbsp;it\u2019s&nbsp;something that you would imagine the entire health&nbsp;care industry would fight against. But,&nbsp;yeah, I&nbsp;don\u2019t&nbsp;know.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;And I will point out that Sen.&nbsp;Josh Hawley, in addition to all his anti-abortion activities, last year, when Congress was debating the Medicaid cuts, kept vowing not to vote for those Medicaid cuts.&nbsp;So&nbsp;he\u2019s&nbsp;\u2014&nbsp;which, of course, in the end, he did&nbsp;\u2014&nbsp;but&nbsp;he\u2019s&nbsp;been&nbsp;sort of&nbsp;on&nbsp;the consumer side of health&nbsp;care for a while now.&nbsp;It\u2019s&nbsp;just&nbsp;this is not brand new to him.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Lawrence:<\/strong>&nbsp;Right.&nbsp;And&nbsp;I\u2019m&nbsp;not sure how&nbsp;many&nbsp;other Republican senators would follow him down this path.&nbsp;But it\u2019s&nbsp;definitely a&nbsp;noteworthy development,&nbsp;and&nbsp;curious to see where it goes.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;Yeah,&nbsp;I\u2019m&nbsp;curious to see sort of if the&nbsp;populist part of health care costs sort of rises to the fore.&nbsp;We\u2019ll&nbsp;have to, we will have&nbsp;to watch that space. Well, finally this week, more on the impact of the Trump administration\u2019s immigration crackdowns and health.&nbsp;My&nbsp;KFF&nbsp;Health&nbsp;News colleague Amy&nbsp;Maxmen&nbsp;has&nbsp;<a href=\"https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/news\/article\/us-public-health-service-resignations-guantanamo-immigration-detention\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">a story<\/a>&nbsp;about health professionals in the U.S.&nbsp;Public Health Service Commissioned&nbsp;Corps&nbsp;actually resigning&nbsp;rather than accepting postings to Guant\u00e1namo Bay,&nbsp;Cuba, where some immigrants are being detained in prisons that used to hold al-Qaida suspects. Another&nbsp;<a href=\"https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/news\/article\/ice-immigrants-hospitals-detainees-patients-rights-family-blackout-policies-california\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">KFF Health News&nbsp;story<\/a>&nbsp;by Claudia Boyd-Barrett describes how when people detained by ICE&nbsp;[Immigration and Customs Enforcement]&nbsp;end up in the hospital, often their immediate families and their lawyers&nbsp;aren\u2019t&nbsp;even allowed to know where. And remember, last week we talked about cases of measles in&nbsp;some&nbsp;immigration detention facilities. Well, now there are two confirmed cases of tuberculosis at the&nbsp;ICE&nbsp;facility at Fort Bliss in El Paso,&nbsp;Texas.&nbsp;I\u2019m&nbsp;thinking&nbsp;maybe the&nbsp;health part of this is starting to&nbsp;kind of get&nbsp;to people as&nbsp;much&nbsp;as the whole depriving-civil-liberties part.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Forti\u00e9r:<\/strong>&nbsp;Yeah, and&nbsp;there\u2019s&nbsp;also been cases of covid-19, which makes sense.&nbsp;You\u2019re&nbsp;going to have respiratory viruses as you get hundreds of people grouped together. That makes sense. A judge in California a couple&nbsp;days&nbsp;ago ordered that there had to be adequate health provided to detainees in one specific California&nbsp;\u2014 it was a prison and now&nbsp;it\u2019s&nbsp;an&nbsp;ICE&nbsp;detainee facility.&nbsp;That\u2019s&nbsp;specific to&nbsp;there, but it\u2019s&nbsp;\u2014&nbsp;more and more&nbsp;senators, I think, are also looking at this and pointing out that&nbsp;they\u2019re&nbsp;just not providing the health facilities that people need. And especially ongoing care&nbsp;\u2014&nbsp;a&nbsp;lot of&nbsp;folks need diabetes treatment, and that treatment just&nbsp;isn\u2019t&nbsp;really happening in&nbsp;many&nbsp;cases.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;Yeah,&nbsp;we\u2019ve&nbsp;talked about this at&nbsp;some&nbsp;length, over&nbsp;many&nbsp;weeks, that people in detention are not getting health care, even though it&nbsp;is&nbsp;required,&nbsp;that we keep hearing stories about people not getting needed health care. I&nbsp;didn\u2019t&nbsp;know until I read this story that people who&nbsp;actually end&nbsp;up&nbsp;being hospitalized, that their family members&nbsp;are not allowed&nbsp;to know.&nbsp;That\u2019s&nbsp;allegedly, well, it is because of security, because the idea is that if somebody&nbsp;who\u2019s&nbsp;in detention is in a hospital, you&nbsp;don\u2019t&nbsp;necessarily want bad people knowing that and being able to come to the hospital. But these are people&nbsp;often&nbsp;who are,&nbsp;as we have documented at length, do not have criminal records, and&nbsp;it\u2019s&nbsp;hard to find out where they are. Alice, you wanted&nbsp;to add something.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Ollstein:<\/strong>&nbsp;Yeah. So there was a recent GAO&nbsp;[Government Accountability Office]&nbsp;report about this, and it found that&nbsp;people were not getting evaluated when they entered a facility to see if they were medically vulnerable and at risk of having&nbsp;a really bad episode or emergency, and that even&nbsp;children, pregnant women, vulnerable populations weren\u2019t getting that&nbsp;initial evaluation, which then led to problems down the road. And it also said that people upon their release&nbsp;\u2014&nbsp;either deportation or release within the United States if&nbsp;that\u2019s&nbsp;what&nbsp;a court ordered&nbsp;\u2014&nbsp;they&nbsp;weren\u2019t&nbsp;being given&nbsp;their medical records, their prescriptions. And&nbsp;so&nbsp;the continuity of care&nbsp;was disrupted. And&nbsp;it\u2019s&nbsp;important to note that that GAO report was about&nbsp;a few&nbsp;years ago under the Biden&nbsp;administration.&nbsp;So&nbsp;this&nbsp;isn\u2019t&nbsp;new. These problems&nbsp;aren\u2019t&nbsp;new, but&nbsp;they\u2019re&nbsp;getting&nbsp;much&nbsp;worse, because the number of people detained is at record levels and so&nbsp;everything\u2019s&nbsp;just getting multiplied.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;Yeah, it is. Well, we will keep watching that space. OK, that\u2019s this week\u2019s news. Before we&nbsp;get to our&nbsp;extra credits, I am pleased to present the winner of our annual&nbsp;KFF Health&nbsp;News&nbsp;Health&nbsp;Policy Valentine contest.&nbsp;It\u2019s&nbsp;from&nbsp;[Andrew Carleen]&nbsp;of Massachusetts, based on a story about Medicare Advantage overpayments. And it goes like this:&nbsp;\u201cI thought it was love. My heart felt spring-loaded. Turns out our relationship was significantly&nbsp;upcoded.\u201d Congratulations,&nbsp;and happy Valentine\u2019s Day to all.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>OK, now&nbsp;it\u2019s&nbsp;time for our&nbsp;extra-credit&nbsp;segment.&nbsp;That\u2019s&nbsp;where we each recognize&nbsp;a&nbsp;story we read this&nbsp;week&nbsp;we think you should read,&nbsp;too.&nbsp;Don\u2019t&nbsp;worry if you miss it. We will post the links in our show notes on your phone or other mobile device. Alice, why don\u2019t you start us off this week?&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Ollstein:<\/strong>&nbsp;Sure.&nbsp;So&nbsp;I have a kind of fun story&nbsp;[\u201c<a href=\"https:\/\/www.politico.com\/news\/2026\/02\/09\/oura-ring-lobbying-rfk-maha-washington-00770320\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Why Washington\u2019s All-In on Smart Rings<\/a>\u201d]&nbsp;from my co-worker Amanda Chu about how the&nbsp;Oura ring has taken over D.C. They have been heavily lobbying the Trump administration and Congress to prevent tough regulations.&nbsp;Basically, there\u2019s&nbsp;a debate about whether it should&nbsp;be regulated&nbsp;as a medical device or not.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;Tell us again what it does.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Ollstein:<\/strong>&nbsp;It\u2019s&nbsp;a ring you wear&nbsp;on your finger that&nbsp;monitors&nbsp;different health metrics. And&nbsp;so&nbsp;the Trump administration&nbsp;MAHA&nbsp;movement has gone all in on this. They love it. The Pentagon has a huge contract with them. Other government agencies are looking at it,&nbsp;too. I think&nbsp;it\u2019s&nbsp;interesting because it is this very sort of conservative mindset of individual responsibility in health care&nbsp;and, oh, if you could just&nbsp;track your own metrics and do the right things.&nbsp;That\u2019s&nbsp;an approach that is&nbsp;sort of counter&nbsp;to the idea of public health&nbsp;and government protecting your health through policy.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;And we know HHS Secretary Kennedy is&nbsp;a big fan&nbsp;of wearables.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Ollstein:<\/strong>&nbsp;Exactly, and this is one of the most popular ones right now. And&nbsp;so&nbsp;this story does&nbsp;a good job&nbsp;digging into all the lobbying&nbsp;and also&nbsp;into concerns about data privacy and pointing out that&nbsp;these technologies are moving much faster than government can regulate them. And that is leaving&nbsp;some&nbsp;lawmakers really concerned about who could have access to this data.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;Jackie.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Forti\u00e9r:<\/strong>&nbsp;Mine is&nbsp;by Ariana Hendrix.&nbsp;She\u2019s&nbsp;a writer based in Norway.&nbsp;It\u2019s&nbsp;entitled&nbsp;\u201c<a href=\"https:\/\/www.statnews.com\/2026\/02\/10\/rsv-vaccine-schedule-denmark-norway-paid-leave-day-care\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">The&nbsp;New Childhood Vaccine Guidelines Have a Paid Leave Problem<\/a>.\u201d&nbsp;It&nbsp;was published&nbsp;in&nbsp;Stat. And she writes eloquently&nbsp;about being a parent in Norway and knowing that her children&nbsp;wouldn\u2019t&nbsp;go to day&nbsp;care until they were about 16 months old, because Norway has paid parental leave. And she points out, beyond the vaccine debate&nbsp;there\u2019s&nbsp;a bigger issue,&nbsp;that the U.S.&nbsp;lacks universal health care and federal paid parental leave.&nbsp;So&nbsp;changes in infant vaccines in the U.S.&nbsp;have a large effect, because babies in the U.S.&nbsp;often go to day&nbsp;care,&nbsp;when&nbsp;they\u2019re&nbsp;around&nbsp;a lot of&nbsp;other kids when&nbsp;they\u2019re&nbsp;just&nbsp;a few&nbsp;weeks old.&nbsp;So&nbsp;she points to the,&nbsp;in January, the infant RSV&nbsp;[respiratory syncytial virus]&nbsp;vaccine&nbsp;was moved&nbsp;to the high-risk category of shots, so now it&nbsp;isn\u2019t&nbsp;routinely recommended&nbsp;for all babies in the U.S. And RSV, of course, is the most common cause of hospitalizations for infants, and that\u2019s&nbsp;due to the fact that&nbsp;they\u2019re exposed to the virus in day&nbsp;care&nbsp;a lot&nbsp;earlier than other children in other countries like Norway and Denmark whose vaccine schedules U.S.&nbsp;officials are now&nbsp;kind of trying&nbsp;to emulate.&nbsp;So&nbsp;she does a really&nbsp;great job&nbsp;of laying out how families face greater health and financial risks in the U.S.&nbsp;without the same safety net that other countries have.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;Or just the same social policies that other countries have.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Forti\u00e9r:<\/strong>&nbsp;Yeah,&nbsp;it reminded&nbsp;me\u2014&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;It\u2019s&nbsp;hard to,&nbsp;right,&nbsp;it\u2019s&nbsp;hard to import another country\u2019s&nbsp;\u2014&nbsp;part of another country\u2019s&nbsp;\u2014&nbsp;policies without importing all of them. It is&nbsp;really&nbsp;good story. Lizzy.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Lawrence:<\/strong>&nbsp;Yeah. So my piece is by Rachana Pradhan and&nbsp;KFF&nbsp;Health&nbsp;News, and it\u2019s about the&nbsp;\u201c<a href=\"https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/news\/article\/ivermectin-cancer-treatment-nih-study-dewormer-offlabel-drug\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">US Cancer Institute Studying Ivermectin\u2019s \u2018Ability To Kill Cancer Cells.\u2019<\/a>\u201d&nbsp;And I thought this piece was very interesting, just because in general I\u2019ve been fascinated by&nbsp;\u2014&nbsp;politicization of medicine isn\u2019t new&nbsp;\u2014&nbsp;but just like right-wing-coded products and left-wing-coded products. And in this piece,&nbsp;Rachana&nbsp;talks about NIH&nbsp;[National Institutes of Health]&nbsp;Director Jay Bhattacharya&nbsp;kind of talking&nbsp;about how,&nbsp;<em>It\u2019s&nbsp;the people\u2019s NIH and if&nbsp;a lot of&nbsp;people are using it, well, we want to investigate it.<\/em>&nbsp;So&nbsp;she&nbsp;just, she&nbsp;does a really&nbsp;good job&nbsp;of kind of unpacking why this is problematic, that&nbsp;they\u2019re&nbsp;kind of just&nbsp;choosing a random medication and&nbsp;there\u2019s&nbsp;not really any scientific reason to be investing in it as much as they are. And she&nbsp;got a response from NIH after the fact as well, kind of where they were trying to defend this decision to pour this&nbsp;much&nbsp;investment.&nbsp;And so,&nbsp;yeah, I think it\u2019s just&nbsp;a really interesting&nbsp;development in NIH land.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;It is.&nbsp;My extra credit this week&nbsp;is from ProPublica,&nbsp;by Mica Rosenberg, and&nbsp;it\u2019s&nbsp;called&nbsp;\u201c<a href=\"https:\/\/www.propublica.org\/article\/life-inside-ice-dilley-children?utm_source=bluesky&amp;utm_medium=social&amp;utm_campaign=propublica-bsky&amp;utm_content=thread\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">The&nbsp;Children of Dilley<\/a>.\u201d&nbsp;It\u2019s&nbsp;about what immigration detention looks like from the point of view of children&nbsp;being held&nbsp;at a family facility in Dilley, Texas.&nbsp;That\u2019s&nbsp;the one where the two cases of measles&nbsp;were diagnosed&nbsp;earlier this winter. The story includes&nbsp;some&nbsp;pretty wrenching letters and video calls from kids who were living elsewhere in the U.S., while their parents were mostly working within the immigration system. And these kids had&nbsp;been ripped&nbsp;from their daily lives, their other parents and siblings in&nbsp;some&nbsp;cases, their&nbsp;schools&nbsp;and their classmates, and in&nbsp;many&nbsp;cases, from&nbsp;hope itself. Wrote&nbsp;one&nbsp;14-year-old from Hicksville, New York, quote: \u201cSince I got to this&nbsp;Center all you will feel is sadness and mostly depression.\u201d&nbsp;It&nbsp;really is&nbsp;a must-read story.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>OK. That is this week\u2019s show. As always, thanks to our editor,&nbsp;Emmarie Huetteman,&nbsp;and our producer-engineer, Francis Ying. A&nbsp;reminder:&nbsp;<em>What the&nbsp;Health?<\/em>&nbsp;is now available on WAMU platforms, the NPR app,&nbsp;and wherever you get your podcasts, as well as, of course,&nbsp;<a href=\"https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">kffhealthnews.org<\/a>.&nbsp;Also, as always, you can email&nbsp;us&nbsp;your comments or questions.&nbsp;We\u2019re&nbsp;at&nbsp;<a href=\"mailto:whatthehealth@kff.org\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">whatthehealth@kff.org<\/a>. Or you can find me on&nbsp;X,&nbsp;<a href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/jrovner\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">@jrovner<\/a>, or on Bluesky,&nbsp;<a href=\"https:\/\/bsky.app\/profile\/julierovner.bsky.social\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">@julierovner<\/a>.&nbsp;Where are you folks hanging these days? Jackie.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Forti\u00e9r:<\/strong>&nbsp;Bluesky mainly,&nbsp;<a href=\"https:\/\/bsky.app\/profile\/jackie-fortier.bsky.social\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">@jackie-fortier<\/a>.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;Alice.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Ollstein:<\/strong>&nbsp;Mainly on&nbsp;Bluesky,&nbsp;<a href=\"https:\/\/bsky.app\/profile\/alicemiranda.bsky.social\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">@alicemiranda<\/a>,&nbsp;and still on&nbsp;X,&nbsp;<a href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/AliceOllstein\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">@AliceOllstein<\/a>.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;Lizzy.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Lawrence:<\/strong>&nbsp;On&nbsp;X,&nbsp;<a href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/LizzyLaw_\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">@LizzyLaw_<\/a>. On&nbsp;Bluesky,&nbsp;<a href=\"https:\/\/bsky.app\/profile\/lizzylawrence.bsky.social\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">@lizzylawrence<\/a>.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rovner:<\/strong>&nbsp;We\u2019ll&nbsp;be back in your feed next week. Until then, be healthy.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t<\/div>\n<\/section>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-credits block--credits\">\n\t\t<h3 class=\"credits-title\">\n\t\tCredits\t<\/h3>\n\t\t<div class=\"credits-card-container twowide\">\n\t\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-people-card block--people-card\">\n\t\t\t<div class=\"author-meta-container\">\n\t<div class=\"author-name\">Francis Ying<\/div>\n\t<div class=\"author-affiliation\">Audio producer<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"author-bio\">\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t<\/div>\n<\/div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-people-card block--people-card\">\n\t\t\t<div class=\"author-meta-container\">\n\t<div class=\"author-name\">Emmarie Huetteman <\/div>\n\t<div class=\"author-affiliation\">Editor <\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"author-bio\">\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t<\/div>\n<\/div>\n\n\t<\/div>\n<\/div>\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity\"\/>\n\n\n\n<p><em><a href=\"https:\/\/kffhealthnews.org\/our-podcasts\/\"><u>Click here to find all our podcasts.<\/u><\/a><\/em><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>And subscribe to &#8220;What the Health? From KFF Health News&#8221; on <a href=\"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/what-the-health\/id1253607372?mt=2\"><u>Apple Podcasts<\/u><\/a>, <a href=\"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/32EdsB662C3oyIrqLMmBXI?si=TQhRjzzLTgWtK3crfbOFtA\"><u>Spotify<\/u><\/a>, <a href=\"https:\/\/app.npr.org\/aggregation\/fis-1269164038\"><u>the NPR app<\/u><\/a>, <a href=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/playlist?list=PL5Qew-7pSXbAucCUQnyRx6qpLglzrxzFb\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">YouTube<\/a>, <a href=\"https:\/\/play.pocketcasts.com\/web\/podcasts\/a379e280-3f57-0135-9028-63f4b61a9224\"><u>Pocket Casts<\/u><\/a>, or wherever you listen to podcasts.<\/em><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>It\u2019s been a busy week at the FDA, with a political appointee overruling agency scientists to reject an application for a new flu vaccine. 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